When Ron and Greg decided to build their family through surrogacy, the first question was, Where do we get an egg? After careful consideration, they opted to accept Greg’s sister’s donation.
“Trailblazing” best describes the process from there, where they found opportunities to educate everyone from hospital nurses to teachers about their family formation, which now included twins Eleanor and Tomer. In the end, an entire community embraced and grew along with them.
RON
So we have a boy and a girl, twins. And the boy’s name is Tomer, and the girl is Eleanor.
GREG
Like, quite early in the relationship, it came up that, you know, we want to have kids. And we didn’t know how we were gonna have them, but we both knew that we wanted them. So it was just a given that that was going to be part of our life journey—somehow, children would be involved. I curl; I’m a curler. And we were at the United States Curling Championships in Duluth, Minnesota. And my teammates were there, and one of my teammates had a young child, an infant. And so I was holding the kid at one time. And you know, it was very natural for me. And one of my teammates says, “Oh, wow, you would really make a great father.” And we said, you know, “We would like kids, and—but we just—we don’t have, you know, any eggs.” And my sister was at the tournament. And she says, “Well, maybe you could have mine.”
RON
We didn’t want to jump and say, “Yes, we actually thought about that,” you know.
GREG
Yeah. That’s right.
RON
Because, you know, we were very concerned about asking such a big thing, you know, from anyone, obviously. But we were like really playing with it, and toying with the idea. We were hoping that might—
GREG
Biologically, [be good].
RON
Biologically.
GREG
But one thing with my sister—she said , she always maintained that, “I am giving you the eggs. They are—once you get them, they’re yours.” You know, it’s like my gift to you, and it’s like, no strings attached type of thing.
RON
We were just assuming that all of this is possible.
GREG
Possible. We hadn’t researched it.
RON
We hadn’t researched it. We have gone to that group at the Center.
GREG
Yeah, but we hadn’t researched IVF or anything—
RON
But we haven’t researched what exactly—
GREG
Or surrogacy, nothing.
RON
We just assumed, I mean, you know, why not.
GREG
It’s possible, yeah.
RON
You know we knew that there were test tube babies, so you know, why can’t we do that.
We were offered that surrogate by the agency. It was a good match, and it worked very well, and it is still typical that most people do not choose from a roster of candidates. It’s not—I mean, they do for egg donation, but not for a surrogate. For a surrogate, it’s more like a, almost like the matching, you know, agency. You know, you basically, you know, you need to look at a good—if you do it well, to look at, you know, the characteristic of the intended parents, and the family that’s going to help them, because the surrogate’s husband was very much part of the process, very much so.
GREG
And involved.
RON
He was very supportive, very involved.
The hospital didn’t know how to deal with us.
GREG
They didn’t know how to deal with us at all.
RON
We would go to meetings at the hospital, and they would not consider both of us as patients, you know, because if you’re not providing genetic material, you know—we would sit in orientation. And a surrogate would get all the materials, and the folder, and we would get nothing.
GREG
But yet, we also helped educate people on the way, that this is the situation, and we would like two rooms—one for the surrogate and her husband, and one for us and the babies, they will come to us.
So the way the kids found out about this whole thing was you know, we just take—whatever they ask, we’re gonna tell them in age appropriate ways. We’re not going to force anything on them, but we’re not gonna hold anything back, as well. So at some point when they figured out that—like, I guess they saw pregnant women, then they asked, whose tummy did they come out of—like Ron’s, or mine.
RON
And we told them, you know, they thought they came out of my tummy. I was the stay home parent, so—
GREG
But we did say, “You didn’t—we—you didn’t come out of either our tummies, because babies don’t come out of men’s tummies, they come out of women’s tummies. So we had somebody—you came out of somebody else’s tummy, for us.” That was basically it. So they go, “Okay,” you know, and they go on their merry way. That was enough for them.
RON
People always ask, “What’s gonna happen when they ask where’s their mother?” “Oh, what’s gonna happen when they, ‘how come I don’t have a mother’?” Our kids never ask that. You see, these are questions that, coming from people who have these preconceived
GREG
Have these schemes already.
RON
Notions and schemes in their minds. Our kids never had that question. I mean, like, they never asked, you know, “How come we don’t have a, you know, a boat?” You know. It’s like—we don’t have a boat. I mean, we don’t live on the ocean. I mean, it’s like—
GREG
Some people have a boat, some people don’t.
We met with the school, prior to the start of every school year, we would meet with the teachers, let them know what our family situation is. You know, Mother’s Day was a big thing. Mother’s Day, that you know, this is what, you know, they don’t have a mother, so don’t make them feel bad. What else can you do? And we actually, then ended up changing the school policy, that they don’t celebrate Mother’s Day anymore, they celebrate Family Day. So you know, I think that you have to be proactive in sort of trying to prevent some of the issues that are going to make them uncomfortable.
Well, we are pioneers. I don’t feel like a pioneer.
RON
As I said, it doesn’t feel like—when you say the word pioneer, it feels like it must be hard work. And it wasn’t because it didn’t—our lives—we didn’t feel that we sacrificed anything.
GREG
Maybe a better word is trailblazer.
We eat dinner together every night, which is nice.
RON
You know, not everybody is able to do that. We’re fortunate. I’m not, God forbid, judging anybody else. But for us, perhaps—
GREG
But it’s important for us.
RON
Perhaps that goes back. We don’t even think about it, but now when I’m articulating it, perhaps being these trailblazers was easier by still, you know, compensating for some of the possible other problems, by being such a close knit family, and spending so much time with the kids. And the kids love spending time with us.
Something I would tell other people is to have the kids feel that this whole unique situation and stuff is something that belongs to them, too. I guess what I’m saying is that we never hush-hushed about it. We never like, you know, I mean, you saw, I mean, we talk about it completely open in front of them. But we did that all along. It was never—you know, in fact, I think it is a futile effort not to. I mean, you’ll be passing the border. And the, you know, the customs person is gonna say whatever, the border patrol is gonna say, so, “Who was the mother? Who’s the mother?” And like you can’t just say, “Oh, well, don’t talk about it,” you know, in front of the kids. The kids are there. They’re gonna hear that. And they’re gonna want to hear you say clearly, and proudly, and without issues, explain the situation.
GREG
They have two fathers.
RON
You know, they have two fathers. We’re the two fathers. Here’s the documents.
Some question people ask us, not gay people, but—are our kids gonna be gay, or not? They’re not. You know, they’re—they have the same chances of being gay as everybody else. But they are part of an LGBT family. You know, even—they’re not gay, but they will always—that is part of their identity.
GREG
I think they’re just more tolerant, and open to possibilities. And also aware of—underdog is the wrong word. But aware of people who are not in the majority; aware of minorities. And to be sensitive, and not protective, but just sensitive.
RON
To be the hero, not the bully.
GREG
Sometimes the—sometimes the advocate, or just, just to be thoughtful about that.
RON
You don’t notice it. You don’t work so hard at it, but you change so many people. Like, when you think about it, we’re one family here. And we’re not, like—as I said, we’re not writing essays, and inviting everybody here for, you know, talks and—just by virtue of living our lives casually, and you know, carefree, we are changing a lot of people, you know, fundamentally.
GREG
Their ideas of what a good family is.
RON
You know. So you know, there are probably several dozen children who grew up with this reality around here. One of them, we actually overheard saying, “How come she only has one dad?”
I think gay families are much more of a catalyst, as far as changing—an effective catalyst in changing society.